In The Name Of Science, A Contest

We've been asked by Dr. Robert Newsome, the leading researcher of internet rage, to assist in his work chronicling the predicted double explosion coming from the Supreme Court's ruling on the consolidated Affordable Care Act cases, and the vote by the House of Representatives on whether to hold Attorney General Eric Holder in contempt.

And we're asking you to help.

Your mission is to help us find the most egregious example of hysterical, shrieking outrage, or smug, gloating condescension, produced on the World Wide Web today.

The contest opens today at 10:30 a.m., eastern time. It closes 24 hours later.

To make an entry, leave one link in comments. Multiple links may trigger our spam filter, even for veteran commenters. If you have multiple nominees, leave a comment for each.

The authors of this site will judge all links submitted. In general, more prominent websites and writers will be given more credit, but that doesn't mean that the archliberal or archconservative guy who frequents the "politics and other stuff" section of your gardening forum cannot win. More than prominence, we want bitching and whining. More than thoughtful analysis, we want predictions of DOOM for the American republic, or a holocaust for women, minorities, the poor, and children.

For this reason, entries from Andrew Sullivan, Paul Krugman, Debbie Schlussel, and Rush Limbaugh are automatically disqualified. That would be making it easy.

The prize for winning this contest will be a new DVD of Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan, shipped directly to you by Amazon, the deluxe edition if we can get it.

For this reason, you must leave a valid email address with your comment, i.e., not If you win, we will contact you for a shipping address.  You do not need to tell us your real name. We're perfectly happy shipping the dvd to, to pick an example of a pseudonymous commenter who lurks here, SPQR, but we have to know how to get in touch with SPQR.

No one with author privileges at Popehat is eligible for the prize, even past authors who haven't written here for four years, nor are their spouses and significant others.

Good luck, and happy hunting!

Update: The judges have spoken!


Last 5 posts by Patrick Non-White


  1. says

    Sorry Adam, to win you have to submit something written or recorded after the Supreme Court rules on health care, or Holder is/is not held in contempt.

  2. Chris Sherlock says

    If SPQR is the same spqr on Hacker News, I've been trying to tell him for a while now that he's hellbanned. He needs to create a new account on HN.

  3. says

    I have no idea if he's the same person Chris Sherlock, but thank you for the public service announcement, to the dozens of people who use the handle SPQR on the internet.

    GDad, not that you would, but if we catch anyone submitting self-created content in an attempt to game this important scientific work, we'll hellban that person.

  4. perlhaqr says

    Awwww, man. This means I'm going to have to log into Facebook this month. I predict the butthurt will be mighty, there.

  5. Christopher says

    I'm not really going to enter, because reading comments usually kills my entire will to live, but I'm gonna go ahead and give a hint to anyone lost….ANY yahoo article. Any single one of them. It's like where civilization goes to die over there.

  6. ZK says

    I don't think this is worthy of entry, but for five minutes,'s headline read:

    "The Supreme Court has struck down the individual mandate."

    They've finally corrected it, to read the opposite, just about at the time of this post.

  7. Grifter says

    Both from lovely Yahoo! (

    "You idiots, the supreme court just upheld indentured servitude or slavery, a tax for breathing is illegal!! Sorry!!! This is where it starts!! The u.s.a. Freedom does not exist anymore!!"


    "If citizens are now forced to buy health insurance, whats next? Can it not be seen that govt can now make us by big ticket items every couple of years to benefit 'the economy', or pay for a new house for poor illegal Pedro in 'fairness'. The productive will begin to flee this wretched country, no longer home of the free, but rather the home of the slave. Obamaslaves.

    Looking for an exit."

  8. says

    From a co-blogger:

    I want to direct your attention to the end of the post.

    "Me, I’m taking the rest of the day off. As an old libertarian I mourn for the freedom we just lost. It is another reason, in a long, long line of them, to clean that cesspool of Washington DC out. And, frankly, perhaps it is time we contemplated bolder measures.

    Sorry … but this ruling all but guarantees the twilight of a great experiment. It lasted over 200 years, but it is definitely in its nadir now. This only accelerates the decline. We’ve just put ourselves in the same place as Europe, and we see who gloriously that’s going, don’t we?

    Wow, just wow."
    Looking at the prior submission, I guess not up there, but I imagine the libertarians will be the most bummed.

  9. Grifter says

    I think I can pull all mine just from that one Yahoo! link!

    This one may not be contest-worthy, but it's just so classy:

    "obummer is a joke and needs to go… and his gorilla wife needs to be deported to mexico so we dont have to look at her ugly face anymore."

  10. Kelly says

    "We are now officialy slaves to the Federal Government. You will never earn money for yourself as your wages are taxed. You will never own your own property since they can take it if you don't pay taxes. And you could now essentially be jailed if you do not pay the "Penalty" "tax" or whatever for not having Insurance. And the Government, and their Insurance Corporation friends win again."

    From comments here:

  11. Nicholas Weaver says

    Wow… Its actually probably good for the contest, since we want big names, not little names, and the big-name liberals are usually to weak and spineless to let out more than a "uhh, khan?" anyway.

    I think probably the best, for sheer irony value, will be the Romney Camp's inevitable 1.5 Khan reply, since the individual mandate, the community ratings, and all those other things upheld by the court were taken from the Romney Taxachusis plan.

  12. Grifter says

    "When they look back on the American system of once-limited government, June 28, 2012 will stand as a definitive date in the advance of government tyranny. Today, a slim majority of the Supreme Court turned our Constitution on its head, and ruled that the federal government, in effect, can force upon the American people anything it damn well pleases – as long as it is called a tax. Unlimited federal power, combined with judicial activism, has crafted a new regime that has destroyed our Founders' vision."

    "Not only are individual liberties destroyed as a result of ObamaCare, but taxpayers are on the hook for a non-workable, ineffective, and outrageously expensive health care program. ObamaCare will drive America into bankruptcy…"

  13. Andrew says

    "What a sad day in American History. We are no longer free or permited to make our own choices. So Christian Scientists will be forced to have health insurance? It's like forcing Amish children to bus to school. Fine people who fail to purchase something they can't afford…fabulous logic. Is this job creation? Government employees who will administer and departments to collect fines. We should be dismantling the IRS and here we go creating more unnecessary beuracracy. November get here quick!"

    Comment from "Pribyl"

  14. says

    From commenter "EastKY" in the comments section of my hometown newspaper the Lexington Herald Leader:

    "There goes my marriage. It's a sad comment on where our freedom is headed when a marriage has survived everything that can be thrown at a marriage and after 37 years of vowing to stay together no matter what we will now be forced to divorce because he cannot afford to add me to his insurance and would now be forced to do so.
    Our young men and women have fought nad died for our freedom only to have our president and congress take it away."

    Read more here:

  15. Peter H says

    In case my last one gets deleted off twitter:

    "Code-Switch Shawty ‏@shadcraft21

    Plessy v. Ferguson RT @the_blueprint remeber dred scott? just because the SCOTUS rules in favor of something, that doesn't make it right."

  16. says

    Suggested Rules Ammendment: All Fox News links should be disqualified as baseline. After all, in any invitational the inviting party performs but isn't technically a participant for judging.

    Since Fox always invites histrionics they should be considered "the host" for all contests of loony outrage on their side of the median media consensus. 8-)

  17. Dustin says

    I feel like this article from slate is missing the pithy quote that would make it a top contender, but overall I think it's a good candidate for grabbing butthurt from the jaws of victory.

    The subheader: The chief justice’s canny move to uphold the Affordable Care Act while gutting the Commerce Clause.

  18. Kelly says

    Oh boy! Rand Paul…
    "Just because a couple people on the Supreme Court declare something to be ‘constitutional’ does not make it so. The whole thing remains unconstitutional. While the court may have erroneously come to the conclusion that the law is allowable, it certainly does nothing to make this mandate or government takeover of our health care right"

  19. Dave says

    Twitter lighting up with people so upset about the decision that they're going to be moving to the bastion of liberty and freedom to not have health insurance that is Canada.

    (Punchline over here for folks who need it.)

  20. somebody says

    Back when Diablo III got released and nobody was able to log in right away, a youtube video surfaced of a fat guy getting so angry that he got out a stick of Old Spice and ate the entire thing in front of his computer.

    …I should go looking for youtube responses to this decision.

  21. Kelly says

    @ Shkspr …sorry! It showed up on my facebook feed and I had to share. The comments on the article I linked are hilarious too.
    "Damn those couple people and their unconstitutional supermajority powers!"

    "I'm guessing that he's unaware of Marbury vs. Madison (1803). Yup, just another product of our failing school system. Betcha if he went to a voucher school, they would have taught him basic civics. /snark"

  22. Grifter says

    "“ObamaCare”? this sounds exactly like Stalingrad back in Communist Russia"

    "Time for revolutions. grab your guns. put on your battle dress. lets go. lets go."

    "If it’s a tax and it falls under the IRS’ authority to enforce, then it doesn’t apply to citizens – This is why I keep telling people to see the videos ‘The Truth Behind The Income Tax’ (free online) and the 12 hr video seminar ‘Just The Facts’ ( !!!


    Get tar, feathers, and a rope !"

    "“The Supreme (sold out) Court just shit all over the Constitution”

    Roberts wiped his butt with it!"

    "Well, well. Looks like the Constitution is officially dead and buried. Let the criminals in DC do their worst. F##k them! F##k that Obongo from the Congo and his communist corporate whore court! I always knew the day would come when this criminal government would make me into a “criminal”. So here it is, and proud I am to be one."

    That place is just such a joy to visit.

  23. says

    The funny thing about Infowars is, if the supreme court had ruled Obamacare unconstitutional, Alex Jones still would have claimed it was part of a globalist plot to destroy democracy and institute a one-world order.

  24. Kent Allard says

    This zinger in the opinion from the CJ is pretty snarky:

    "We do not consider whether the Act embodies sound policies. That judgment is entrusted to the Nation's elected leaders." Slip Opinion Pg 2 (I left my bluebook at lawschool)

  25. Kelly says

    "Unconstitutional", Sen. Paul?

    "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means."

    — I. Montoya FOX NEWS: post crock ergo propter crock"

    As an offside, popcorn anyone?

  26. says

    Hope this isn't too long!

    "BrianusBerkleianus 57 minutes ago

    My Dear Friends in Sarah,

    Today's dire events are yet another reminder to us of a couple of things:

    A) We must place our trust, not in human flesh, but in the Lord of Hosts.

    B) We must never judge people too quickly: Who would have guessed that KENNEDY would stand with America, and that Benedict Arnold John ROBERTS would betray us????

    We need the Governor's leadership more than ever.

    Also—and please, I am not directly asking the Lord to remove Roberts or any of the other traitors; He alone is Lord of Life and Death—BUT, HE decides how long each one of us draws breath and life on this Earth. WE cannot take such matters into our hands, but it is just possible that, the Lord willing, Sarah's presidency could coincide with many openings on the High Court, including the places now held by some of the “younger” Justices.

    We just do not know!!

    Let us resolve—after we get over the initial shock–to fight harder and harder and harder for a SARAH PRESIDENCY.

    SHE, a superb judge of character, would never give us more Souters or more Robertses.

    And—it is not just her own judgment that would come into play with such nominations, but …






  27. Gal says

    I really don't see how it is not completely obvious that Obama is a terrible president and a man with an agenda to end America!! The man has done NOTHING and all his minions can do is bash was is good and right. I stand with those who fought so hard to keep individual freedoms. George Washington said, "When the people realize that they can take from their country, that will be Americas downfall." Go Romney!!!!!


  28. Pierce Nichols says

    @StrongStyleFiction: Alex Jones and his flying monkeys bring the rage NO MATTER WHAT HAPPENS.

    And I would like to nominate, in its entirety, for both halves of this. They're already threatening to have a collective aneurysm over the ACA decision that makes almost everything posted here so far (with the exception of the infowars quotes) look entirely pedestrian.

  29. says

    I'm with Beth.

    Beth • Jun 28, 2012 @7:54 am

    benshapiro ‏@benshapiro

    This is the greatest destruction of individual liberty since Dred Scott. This is the end of America as we know it. No exaggeration.

    The schaden freudes itself, as I like to say.

  30. says

    I'm ineligible to win this, I already own a dvd of Wrath of Khan, and Rush Limbaugh is excluded, but I did just hear him say:

    "We're in ancient gladiator days folks, where the Emperor gives you a thumbs up, or a thumbs down."

    I'm not sure what it meant, but Rush's butt is hurting today.

  31. Stacey says
    This is nothing short of a disaster for the nation, and a huge black mark on John Roberts’ legacy.
    In reading from his dissent, Justice Kennedy said “In our view, the entire Act before us is invalid in its entirety.”
    In speaking with others, I noted that Roberts was the Court member who worried me most; more than Kennedy. Still, I am fairly stunned by this outcome and can’t help but feel that the soul of our nation has just been lost.

  32. says

    “It’s patently absurd,” seethed Seton Motley, a conservative activist with “This is the umpire calling the game for the first five innings, and then putting on a cap and glove and playing first base. You can’t sit and preside over the case as a judge and then say, you know what, you didn’t make the right argument, we’ll make it for you and rule in your favor with an argument that we think is better yours,” he said.

    “It’s a terrible day for the American people,” said Rep. Michele Bachmann, the Minnesota Republican who ran for president earlier this year. “This was an activist court that rewrote the law to make it even more ineffectual, and even more expensive. So this is a sad day.”

  33. J says,0,4495490.story

    End of the article:

    Rep. Paul Broun (R-Ga.) called it a "sad day for liberty.’’

    "The court’s misguided decision is an attack on freedom, an insult to our Constitution, and it will ultimately destroy the best healthcare system in the world,’’ he said. "Chief Justice Roberts once said that the Supreme Court’s job is to apply the law – ‘to call balls and strikes, not to pitch or bat.’ He couldn’t have been more right in saying so, and he couldn’t have been more wrong by choosing to circumvent the Constitution this morning. Even worse, I fear that the high court has opened Pandora’s box by blatantly disregarding the law, and there will no longer be any real limits to what the federal government will be able to force the American people to do.’’

  34. says

    a comment to this Marietta Daily Journal article

    Tex G
    3 Hours Ago
    Life in our country is now over as we once knew it. This is now a bona fide communist nation.

    From June 6 1944 to today June 28 2012 we were the kings. Today's decision is the beginning of the end.

    God save us all.

    It doesn't have to do with the ACA, but as a lagniappe I direct you to Lib In Cobb's response to a story about a ballet student

  35. Jonnelle says

    Does anything said by Tara Carreon count? There might be too many links to list if so.

  36. Daniel says

    My brother compares States v. Obamacare to landmark rulings allowing state sponsored racism

    BTW: My dad "liked" it. I don't think I'm really related to either of them.

  37. Matt F. says

    "We The People are screwed. Courts have sold out the people. Roberts probably had a huge check given him for his vote. American people have lost greatest country ever to communist,Islam democrats. Only revolution will stop insanity on the left. We have now headed in direction of Egypt,and other 3rd world countries."

  38. Aaron says

    Any of the original derp for #movingtocanada on twitter was about the most gloriously dumb knee jerk response I could have hoped for. Alas, I can't figure out how to link to a twitter hashtag

  39. Aaron says

    "ObamaCare is the largest funding of abortion in history. It will bankrupt America. It will destroy our healthcare system. The law must now be repealed. Elections have consequences. ObamaCare is the result of squandered votes cast in 2008. This November, we need to elect principled people who will repeal ObamaCare."

  40. J says

    I think Aaron took the cake with the ones I have read so far… but that's just the opinion of this random commentator.

  41. says

    In a closed door House GOP meeting Thursday, Indiana congressman and gubernatorial candidate Mike Pence likened the Supreme Court's ruling upholding the Democratic health care law to the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks, according to several sources present.

    He immediately apologized.

    Don't know if the immediate apology disqualifies what otherwise was full of POPEHAT WIN!

  42. Margaret says

    @Adam Steinbaugh:

    That's dangerously close to Godwining. I'm sure somebody out there (Tara, are you listening?) is going to say, "The health care mandate is EXACTLY LIKE THE HOLOCAUST."

  43. John David Galt says

    (I came here to make a nomination but won't bother — InfoWars has everybody else beat by a mile!)

    The next election was already about ObamaCare — and the other major parts of Obama's agenda (card check and cap & trade).

    The only real difference is that Obama couldn't get the last two through the House of Representatives, so he enacted them by executive order, on which the Supreme Court has yet to rule.

    Still, none of these controversies ends until the fat lady sings. The next President will appoint the justices who can start correcting these perversions of the Constitution — or who will nail them in place.

  44. Debra says

    I love the incoherent nature of this comment by sonford:

    " YEA!!!! YEEHAW. Big money and facism lost
    one…hahaha…eat the sandwich Don and
    lisa…that's not brown trout you taste!"

    News miner

  45. Look at that says

    From Daily Kos:

    "Ha ha! From Mitt Romney's Courts & The Constitution campaign website page:

    As president, Mitt will nominate judges in the mold of Chief Justice Roberts and Justices Scalia, Thomas, and Alito,” reads the ‘Courts & The Constitution’ section of Romney’s campaign website.

    So to recap, Republicans nominated the Father of Obamacare, and has pledged to nominate justices in the mold of Chief Justice Roberts, who upheld Obamcare.

    It's enough to almost feel sorry for the wingnuts. Almost."

  46. says

    We'll play the Infowars bit by ear.

    Infowars is like AOL for crazy people, a site for those who need training wheels before they're ready to tackle the wider internet

  47. Look at that says

    More schadenfreude from Kos:

    "Oh my!

    Furious conservative activists lashed out Thursday in the blogosphere at Supreme Court Chief Justice John Roberts for siding with the left and upholding the individual mandate in “Obamacare,” with some even calling for his impeachment.

    Bozell tells me: "People are already talking about the possibility that [Roberts] could be replaced as Chief Justice."
    — @mattklewis via web

    Dear conservatives,

    Unfortunately there's really no way to replace Roberts as chief justice except by either convincing him to resign/retire, or by impeaching him.

    So to show that I'm not 100 percent partisan, 100 percent of the time, let me reach out in solidarity—

    It was total bullshit what Chief Justice Roberts did to you. So I'm happy to join you in calling for his ouster, either voluntarily or via impeachment. Heck, I'll go out of my way to help you accomplish this laudable goal.

    That's just how helpful I am."

  48. says

    So, this website is called, and it's an offshoot of the American Family Association, which has been classified as a hate group by the SPLC (and for good reason). This website is filled with insane people who think that gay is a synonym for pedophile (and if you offer them proof that this is false, they'll accuse you and any reputable psych association you link to of "liberal bias"), that all Muslims are terrorists, and that Obama is on a secret crusade to steal guns and wipe out Christianity. So you can imagine what they think of the supreme court ruling.
    Some choice bits from the comments:

    -"Black robed Sith Lords!!!!!"

    -"Hey genius… it was 5-4 and justice would be that those who are responsible for this have to face the death panel to see if they qualify to live when we begin figuring out that we really cannot afford this."

    -"Care? Ha! Greed for power has a way of doing that. But you libs, uhhh communists I mean,( that's what a lib is from their own testimonies) don't care what happens or whom suffers or what freedoms they loose so long as you get your ways. This is something akin to the old USSR, Cuba or North Korea. I know, you'll make excuses and deny it and then make fun of me. Typical lib tatics."

    -"This is probably the most disgusting news I have heard since I found out Obama won the presidential election 4 plus trillion dollars and a few million murdered babies ago."

    -"This judgement will probably not make any difference to anybody. Jesus will come soon and start the tribulation period and everyone's spiritual health and relationship with Jesus will be what's really important. Glad because being a 60 yr. old diabetic will probably render me unqualified for medical care"

  49. Nicholas Weaver says

    Although, to be honest, the Nerd Rage at the Great IAS Nerf in Diablo 3 rivals (or perhaps even exceeds) the Romneycare/Obamacare rage.

  50. says

    I know I'm not eligible to vote, but I find Sarah Palin's tweet to be elegant, like a haiku.

    And I'm not a good enough Poe to write a good enough screed to even try to enter one under false pretenses. :)

  51. repsac3 says

    I came to nominate, but reading through, I could see my entry was a piker in comparison… But, two things:

    @Jesse • Jun 28, 2012 @10:29 am

    No spoiler alert?!? DUDE, that's just WRONG… (Next you'll tell me he comes back to life, like a clone, or something…)


    Adam Steinbaugh • Jun 28, 2012 @11:54 am

    My vote for winning comment, non-"contest-at-hand" division.

  52. Jimbo says

    Comment on a Business Insider posting of the full text of the decision:

    "imdwightgooden on Jun 28, 11:00 AM said:


    a war was started… it's not a war of my choosing, but it's a war that needs to be fought… capital on strike"

  53. darthskeptic says

    "Implicit in Benjamin Franklin's fabled response at the conclusion of the Constitutional Convention was a dire warning: That the Republic would one day devolve into tyranny unless we the people prevented it. . . .
    If government can mandate that I pay for something I don't want, then what is beyond its power? If the Supreme Court's decision Thursday paves the way for unprecedented intrusion into personal decisions, then has the Republic all but ceased to exist? If so, then is armed rebellion today justified?

    God willing, this oppression will be lifted and America free again before the first shot is fired."

  54. Doesnt Quite Get It says

    Nate Stelzner on Facebook:

    "I think people who think the health care mandate violates "individual freedom" should have to live for the next 2 years with no health insurance. Call your HR dept, cancel your coverage, live up to your big talking. Use what's available to people who don't have good medical coverage through their employer. Free state HC for your kids, nothing for you. I dare you."

  55. newsouthzach says

    I hereby nominate Ben Shapiro's twitter feed. Money quote: "This is the greatest destruction of individual liberty since Dred Scott. This is the end of America as we know it. No exaggeration." It gets better from there…

  56. Sharon W. says

    A handful of gun-jumpers all happy-happy that they had something to crow about…..oopsies.

    Fuse Washington ‏@FuseWA
    Republicans delete celebratory "Obamacare is unconstitutional" tweets. Awkward. #p2 #ACA #HCRdecision
    Retweeted by William Gibson

  57. Grifter says

    Richard, that new Infowars is gold:

    "The Constitution has been violated, the Bill of Rights has been burned, and I see no army coming to rescue me- Therefore, This is No Longer the United States of America its battlefield. Troops marching through cities and something causing people to turn into savages while they’re trying to blame it on weed. How long until they try to kill me because I know more about medical treatment than the “doctors” they’ll escort with M16′s to force a poison into me?"

  58. says

    Matt Davis, the former spokesman for the Michigan Republican Party:

    "If government can mandate that I pay for something I don’t want, then what is beyond its power? If the Supreme Court’s decision Thursday paves the way for unprecedented intrusion into personal decisions, then has the Republic all but ceased to exist? If so, then is armed rebellion today justified?
    God willing, this oppression will be lifted and America free again before the first shot is fired."

  59. Margaret says


    Finally, somebody has uncovered what this is really all about! WEED! Wacky Tabacky!

  60. AlphaCentauri says

    While the arguments sound reasoned, he's not just objecting to the Obamacare decision; he wants to get rid of a lot of older innovations:

    "Chief Justice Roberts joined the four justices who are Exhibit A of the modern hubris, writing for the Court to uphold almost all of this monstrous intrusion on our liberty and on the very theory of the Constitution. And he did so on the flimsiest of rationales for deciding a constitutional question — precedent. If precedent carried the weight Roberts gave it today, we’d still be riding in segregated trains and sending our children to segregated schools."

    "… all of that was lost in 1937 when the New Deal Court, cowed by Roosevelt’s infamous Court-packing threat, suddenly “found” that Congress had an independent power to tax and spend for the “general welfare,” a power that had escaped the Court’s attention for 150 years. That’s the “precedent” for today’s decision — which, like the precedent itself, turn’s the Constitution on its head, giving us effectively unlimited government."

    "… starting with World War II wage-and-price controls and the tax advantages that were given to employer-provided health insurance, it’s been one government intrusion after another and a textbook example of how government can completely mess up what free markets plus voluntary charity can efficiently order while respecting the rights and dignity of people in the process."

    That "general welfare" that covers things not enumerated in the Constitution covers things like interstate highways that were never dreamed of in 1787. And I'm not sure what charity he is thinking of that would provide all the health care currently being provided via employer health insurance, let alone government funded plans — or how it would be funded without being subsidized via tax deductions for donors (or why it can't even manage to provide health care for the people who currently remain uninsured despite everything else). Perhaps he's assuming that with no insurance to pay for medical care for people too sick to work, that all these bothersome expensive medical innovations wouldn't have been developed anyway. Perhaps developing colon cancer and dying vomiting feces is cheaper than treatment, though it's hard to see how getting a colonoscopy and plucking out a pre-cancerous polyp on the spot is less expensive than dying young and no longer supporting your family or paying taxes.

  61. says

    Alpha, that's not what we're looking for.

    Your mission is to help us find the most egregious example of hysterical, shrieking outrage, or smug, gloating condescension, produced on the World Wide Web today.

    Reading is fundamental.

    More than thoughtful analysis, we want predictions of DOOM for the American republic, or a holocaust for women, minorities, the poor, and children.

    If you don't shape up, your next comment, and all succeeding comments at this site, will be edited to say:

    You know, a lot of people will tell you that Larry was the best Stooge. But they don't know what they're talking about. I'm a Curly man. So round. So bald. So handsome.

    I'd have done that already but you're a valued commenter with good insights.

    Get out there and WIN THE PRIZE!

  62. AlphaCentauri says

    "Why the morons who oversee editing at Wikipedia didn't lock John Roberts' page last night, well…"

    Maybe because they thought they needed to lock Thomas' and Scalia's?

  63. The Bitchy Knitter says

    "I have a theory on this. I believe that they know that it’s days are numbered. I believe that if they would have struck the law down or at least the mandate down, there would have been riots in the streets. Not by Conservatives, who are still in the majority in most places, but by the whiney butt Liberals. They have in their playbook violence, terrorism and other horrors. They would have made parts of the country and DC unlivable for months, there would have been violence. We don’t do violence. We may get snotty, but we don’t bomb, hit, throw things, etc. We will lift our cries to Heaven and anyone else who we can get to listen, but we don’t commit terrors. The Justices know that. Now we get to work on repeal, we were going to do that anyway. Yell into the heavens, (God can take it!) then let’s get back to work making the world a better place.

  64. says

    I suspect that Mark Levin is disqualified as being Limbaugh-with-a-JD, but, here goes:

    Just because five lawyers in black robes, one of whom was purported to be a conservative, a man I knew a long time ago, issue a decision of the sort that they issued doesn't make it proper. As a matter of fact, this decision I would go as far to say is lawless. Absolutely lawless.

  65. Peachkins says

    No one said Glenn Beck was off limits. Some highlights:

    "At the start of the show, Glenn added some levity by riding into the studio on a horse and wearing a kilt. Once he shouted, “You may take our money…but you’ll never take our freedom!” it was clear he was parodying Braveheart."

    "In addition to putting out a call for people to activate, Glenn also called out several GOP progressives who had a hand in making this ruling possible – especially Chief Justice John Roberts. First, he had a shirt made that calls out Roberts for what he is – a coward! Glenn also had radio co-host Pat Gray dress up as The Dread Pirate Roberts (a reference to Andre the Giant’s infamous scene in the classic film The Princess Bride). Glenn specifically called Roberts a coward because he believed he had hidden his progressive leanings rather than be straightforward from the start."

    "'We lost the battle today, but the war is just getting started,” Glenn said. “President Obama came out and spike the ball, proclaiming today was a ‘victory for the American people’. You know what? I actually agree with him. Not because this disaster of a bill was upheld by the Supreme Court. Today was a victory for America because they’ve awoken a sleeping giant,' Glenn said."

  66. Marzipan says

    From the Heritage Foundation, whose Stuart M. Butler once described the individual mandate in "A Framework for Reform" thusly: "Element #1: Every resident of the U.S. must, by law, be enrolled in an adequate health care plan to cover major health care costs."

    "This morning, the Supreme Court didn’t just miss the opportunity to protect individual liberty. It also failed to defend religious freedom."

  67. Look at that says

    If counts matter, the Sacramento Bee's thread is up to 1266 comments. Couldn't find anything as good as seen so far though. Lots of gloating, which is unusual, usually the threads are dominated by the Tea Party…….

  68. wxwatcher says

    This probably doesn't qualify since it's just a random person, but I had to share.

    "Today I awoke to find out that my grandparents who fought off fascism and their children who defeated communism had all rolled over in their graves having been betrayed by their children who have constricted a communist healthcare system with a Fascist leadership structure that will b able to tell people they r too old or sick to waste money helping and must die. If the law is allowed to stand expect death camps where retirement communities were and a bankrupt country within 10 years. Don't believe me look at the uk. But yes all the lazy people who refuse to work 2 jobs like the rest of us did when we were uneducated will have healthcare. Congrats."

  69. David L. says

    This comment from my own facebook timeline where I attempted to re-assure conservative folks that the world wasn't ending. I have removed the poster's name to protect their anonymity. [Italics mine]:

    so you dont mind spending my money for me. you are willing to tell me that it is for the greater good to pay this tax? that this good for nothing govt. deserves my money to pay for this. my healthcare is none of their concern and none of their business. its not their money they do not deserve it. i dont care about the specifics this is a country of freedom not socialism. you do not deserve my money nor does any other useless liberal, socialist, brain dead sheep of the obama flock.

    Shockingly, this person wasn't in my friends list anymore when I checked shortly thereafter.

  70. says

    I'm pretty sure that I'm the first to use "SPQR" as my internet pseudonym as I've been using it for … **cough** quite a long time.

    But I've never heard of Hacker News and can't imagine why I would be banned there … or even "hellbanned" would as a term would probably be an infringement of the trademark rights of His Infernal Majesty to whom I report.

  71. says

    The personal vindictiveness against Roberts is my nomination for the most hysterical category of commentary today. I was going to suggest the Kingston tweet, but Adam Steinbaugh beat me to it, so here's an alternate:

    "My entire rationale to elect a POTUS based on their power to select SCOTUS justices has just been overtaken by events. ‪#Roberts"

  72. Look at that says

    An exchange from the Sacramento Bee thread:


    Uh, hey conservatives………….I have a suggestion if you are against ObamaCare…….. Take it to court, by golly!

    Ba da BING!


    I think many of them should consider moving to a place with "less government", "low taxes", no "nanny state" environmental regulations, no "socialized medicine", and no restrictions on guns."

    Somalia would seem a good choice for many of them.


    'Aren't these dirt roads great?'- Somali living in right wing libertarian paradise

  73. Trikeabout says

    "Idiot you just gave them the Power to TAX you into ANYTHING! ..To Tax any behavior instead of just taxing a percentage of your income … Its amazing to see how the Far Left NAZIonal-Socialist Collectivists will give up the power of running their own lives to fat cat Left Wing Special Interesr corporatists in Washington DC ……….. Because that's all who won in this judgement (Big Pharma)"

    I'm not sure if it's a Poe, frankly.

  74. says

    Actually, on second thought, I'm going to offer the Slate article itself, as even though the ACA was upheld, the liberal author STILL manages to claim that Roberts and the conservatives started the beginning of the end of America:

    But the health care law was, ultimately, a pretext. This was a test case for the long-standing—but previously fringe—campaign to rewrite Congress' regulatory powers under the Commerce Clause.


    Roberts' genius was in pushing this health care decision through without attaching it to the coattails of an ugly, narrow partisan victory. Obama wins on policy, this time. And Roberts rewrites Congress' power to regulate, opening the door for countless future challenges. In the long term, supporters of curtailing the federal government should be glad to have made that trade.

  75. says

    A few more from onenewsnow

    -They finally found GW Bush's WMD (weapon of mass destruction). It was John Roberts…

    For the first time in my life, I am embarrassed to live in this country. I cannot believe that the people who "lead" this country could possibly have such a twisted view of our founders vision. This decision represents yet another in a LONG list of perversions to the beauty that used to embody the phrase, "Proud to be an American." I am a fairly young man, and unfortunately I feel that I may live to see the fall of this country because we are doomed to keep falling into this trap of the distorted ideology that government control is better than citizen control. People from my generation are so quick to hand their entire life to the government without thinking twice and don't even think about the freedom that is being given up. We are doomed.

    -They can come arrest me right now, because I WILL NEVER COMPLY with this Supremely unjust law that takes my money and pays for abortions and that would make my compliance a mortal sin, according to my faith.

    – Roberts' logic for the decision was so feeble and unbelievable that I would go so far as to ask if somebody or some group got to him and put the fear of God into him if he were to vote in favor of repealing this trashy example of gone mad monstrocity. I really hate to ask that, but that would make as much sense as anything on the "up and up" for Roberts to have used such feeble and lack of credibility reasoning for the Court's decision.

    -Well, if enough states agreed, we could all secede for the union and make a new country to start over and readopt the Constitution. Or we could just move to another country, but not sure which one. Can't go to Mexico, their immigration laws are too strict!!

    -Oh I know, next they can make us buy air, and tax us if we don't!!! They already claim to own the rain that falls on my property!!!

    -There is going to be another civil war in this country when the government finally overextends it reach into the lives of our citizens. I don't think the federal government will win this time.

    -Welcome to the United Socialist States of America, ceck your freedoms at the door, their not welcome here anymore…
    Justices Samuel Alito, Anthony Kennedy, Antonin Scalia and Clarence Thomas dissented….All that evil needs to proceed is for good men to stay silent…These men were silent, and should not get their pay.

    -With ObamaCare, America has become a tyranical bureaurcratic monster.
    And how shall Americans who love freedom and liberty respond?
    With Action.
    First with their voice, then at the polls, then with their blood.

    -This is…one…small step…for…Democrats…
    One…GIANT LEAP…for socialism/communism!

    -A sad day for America. To have a handful of black robes decide our lives is against everything the constitution was written for. Obama is doing all he can to bring us down, change us to a Muslim country, Sick, sick, sick. Raise up all of you out there, WAKE up! For God's sake, for your own sakes, realize what this illegal president is doing to YOU and all the rest of the USA. We need to be on our knees for a REAL president to be elected, Mitt Romney may not trip your trigger in every way shape and form, but he is a He–of a LOT BETTER than what we are being saddled with . This Man in the office is the worst EVER president to hold the office. He's as close to the Anti-Christ as you wil ever see until (Maybe he is for real the Anti-Christ) this USA and world ends as God has told us would happen. Remember Sodom and Gamorra (Know I didn't spell that right), but we are almost there. VOTE, VOTE, VOTE and get it right this time!

  76. Whitney says

    In the "pure whining" category, a facebook comment from a small-time Tea Party politician named Ben Hodge:

    "I'm interested in public policy to force you to purchase Christina Aguilerra's next CD, to force you to buy CDs in general, to force you to purchase CDs with the full cardboard case around them (anyone remember those?) to protect the timber industry, and to force you to purchase insurance against attacks from Velociraptors.

    "A majority of any level of government knows better than you. Majority wins, right?"

    A majority of any level of government knows better than you. Majority wins, right?

  77. Matt F. says

    The hits just keep on coming…

    "and NOW…there IS NOTHING to stop OBAMA's NAZI MARCH to control ALL & EVERYTHING..
    The SUPREME COURT should change their ROBES to BROWN SHIRTS.
    This is EXACTLY how the NAZI PARTY in GERMANY took over…SUPREME COURT support…FYI OBAMA :ALL the JACKASS LUNATIC LEFTISTS were celebrating like SS soldiers after a kill."

  78. Look at that says

    The Los Angeles Times thread has too many to choose! But, these stuck in my head (poor head):

    "The Obozotax is the new mantra. Enjoy your victory today because in November you will fall victim to a repeat of the 2010 Obozocare rout that took the House. Now in November you will lose the Senate.
    Romney will win in a landslide because the base is now FULLY ENERGIZED!!!!
    Watch the donations and the polls in the coming weeks and months. You don't have a clue yet…….
    Don't worry,,,,we will remind you
    Gee who new "everything for free" is not a sustainable economic model……
    And NOW WE WAIT….."


    "Please do not worry! There is no cause for alarm. Move towards the divine light at the White house. There is no cause for alarm. Its only a tax. There is no cause for alarm. Please move towards the divine light at the White House! There is no cause for alarm. The Federal Government will take care of you at no cost to anyone. There is no cause for alarm! The Federal goverment will take care of you with the same efficentcy as Medicare and the Veterans Administration has done so for years. there is no cause for alarm! Please move forward and empty your pockets! There is no cause for alarm!"

    The thread:

  79. says

    As has been written, go to Yahoo to find wingnut gold.

    Iris T • Charleston, West Virginia • 9 mins ago Report Abuse

    You can bet your sweet BUTTOxxxx that Roberts was intimidated, and THREATENED over this. Remember Andrew Breibart.. DIED SUDDENLY just before he was to release evidence on O'zombie? Remember the head guy that did his autopsy…DIED OF POISONING "before' the autopsy reports were released??? Lots of dif' people in Ocommie past have come up DEAD….and Sup'Court Roberts took that detour on this one..and if you don't believe it…..your just as Ignorant at the POS that is responsible~~~~!!! Barack!!!!!


    MichaelS • Plano, Texas • 1 hr 10 mins ago Report Abuse

    If I were elected President, the first order of business I would do is to order a nuclear attack on all of California and New York, and then dare the rest of the libturds to say another word….

  80. says

    Well, Drudge sure is making this easy by linking to comments like Michael Savage's:

    Let's talk about Roberts. I'm going to tell you something that you're not going to hear anywhere else, that you must pay attention to. It's well known that Roberts, unfortunately for him, has suffered from epileptic seizures. Therefore he has been on medication. Therefore neurologists will tell you that medication used for seizure disorders, such as epilepsy, can introduce mental slowing, forgetfulness and other cognitive problems. And if you look at Roberts' writings you can the cognitive disassociation in what he is saying.

  81. Allen says

    I don't know the proper format, but I found this one:

    "Sorry all, but even if we get everything we want in the house, the senate and the White House, and it is repealed on President Romney’s first day, the idea of a FREE America died today. It didn’t die because we didn’t exersize due vigilance, it was GANG RAPED TO DEATH BY A FUCKING SUPREME COURT WHO REWROTE IT FROM THE BENCH TO TURN IT INTO SOMETHING THEY FELT THEY COULD LIVE WITH, WHICH IS NOT WITHIN THEIR POWER!!!!!

    The idea of America just died a horrible death, because the people who were supposed to protect the Constitution that upholds that ideal just made it known that the power brokers can do whatever they want, and WE THE PEOPLE are POWERLESS and VOICELESS……



  82. says

    Oh, Godwin. You are the gift that keeps on giving.

    "Paul Walker · Subscribe · Top Commenter
    Christian, Think of it like this: If we were in Germany in the 1930's/40's and the government demanded you support their ideas (which they did) and you were to go against those ideas that they had 'in your best interest' – Then you'd be punished, usually by death. – The US Governmnet has just told the American people 'you will do what we tell you to do, or we will punish you.' – It's not different. The punishment might be different, but the idea is the same. This isn't a 'tax' as Roberts tried to explain, this is a punishment for not buying something from a private entity. It's them saying 'do as we say' to the people, or suffer the wrath of our soliders (the IRS in this case). – The government just told you at gunpoint that you MUST buy healthcare or pay a fee. That just screams of liberty, doesn't it?"

  83. Z says

    Can we do KHAAAN and counter-snark? Because this was golden.

    " I was worried before, now more than ever. I really think the country as we know it is over. We’re no longer the land of the free.

    My emotions are strange. I don’t feel anger or anything like that. I’m genuinely sad. I think the USA has been changed in a way that can’t be undone.

    Will my kids be okay?

    What can I do to protect my kids from the government?

    All we can do is try to fix this with Congress. It’s all we can even hope for. So, I guess I’ll do my part. I’m going to Tweet, Facebook, write letters, make phone calls, blog, heckle politicians, recruit friends, organize Tea Parties. I am going to do everything in my legal power to vote every leftist out of office this November. I will work tirelessly to this end.

    I think this is the day America died. So first, I’ll be sad for a day. "

    To which a commenter replies:

    "Don't be sad Harry. America is in heaven now with Grandma and Jesus…and your old dog, Blue, is there too. And they're looking down us now thinking how silly it is for us to look all sad in the puss because, hey, they're not sad. No America isn't sad that it died and went to polity heaven and left you behind because America, like Grandma, was often irritated by your whining and your obstinate refusal to perceive reality. America was tired, tired of you and your kind but also just bone tired of struggling to keep it together for as long as she did. "

  84. Colin says

    Techinically you didn't say it had to be about health, just come after. So we've got (over the Arizona ruling and Obama's reaction):

    " Never before in American history has any Administration ignored statutory law and the supreme law of the land, the Constitution. The tyrant occupying the Oval Office and his administration arrogance reach a point of treason… Obviously, no one told the two-bit Marxist usurper illegally occupying the oval office that the sovereign States created the federal government, not the other way around. (Mr. Justice Antonin Scalia came close.) Though it may come as a shock to this Marxist administration, we are still a Republic. "

  85. says

    I adore the "black-robed Sith Lords!!" one; I'm willing to forgive the error in canon. Still, here's another, from some excitable persons at one of those typographically interesting sites:

    "I plan to do this whenever stateside. I will fill my shopping basket to the brim with stuff. If it is a small business shop owned by one local owner, and this owner is at the cash register, I will ask them in a very stone, neutral, non-commital face, "hey so, like, what do you think of this Obamacare anyway?"
    If I get any "well, seems good for the country", or "I guess he is doing a good job" or any other of that liberal crap, without a SINGLE WORD I am going to leave the filled basket representing lots of bucks in potential sales, right smack there at the register (on the counter, what not) and not saying a word, walk right out. I intend to do it when other people are in line, too. I'm going guerilla in the trenches now, against my "fellow Americans" who want to take us into Socialism along with their phony, narcissist dictgator of a leader. That's MY statement. Screw em. Same with those of you firing liberal employees. Make sure you are covered for lawsuits, and do it. Make these people pay for their sins against the Republic and the Forefathers."

  86. Sari Everna says

    Since it's a set someone else has collected, I imagine this doesn't count, but I think you will find this entertaining anyway:

    I would also like to add that my head just about exploded when I found out people were threatening to move to Canada over this, and I lost it when more than one of them cited America becoming "too socialist"(or variants thereof) for this threat. I kind of hope they try it; just knowing how horrified they would be when they finally figured it out fills me with perverse glee, as does the knowledge that there is no industrialized nation to which they could move without being equally offended.

  87. flip says

    I can't provide anything other than this:

    As someone living in a country with socialised medicine, I honestly think all the rhetoric and comments above are even nuttier than they probably sound to more reasonable Americans. The above comments show an incredible amount of ignorance of other countries and the fact they haven't 'died' because of health care; along with an incredible amount of belief in their echo chamber where anything they don't like is somehow communism or fascism. I always worry about travelling to the US because it would be inconceivable to me to be billed 469K for life-saving surgery. I have more choice in medical options than I would if I were American – and I live in a democratic society.

    It boggles my mind that some people out there would rather go broke paying for surgery than pay a little in taxes for decent health insurance. These people are just so… full of hot air. Their arguments aren't even arguments, just ad homenims and non sequiters.

    I honestly think all of them should win: although the one about this ruling being like the holocaust is probably the 'best' of the lot.

  88. says

    Leave it to to host the sorest of the sore winners:

    "Roberts has this extraordinary degree of power because our political process remains committed to an absurd system of judicial review, in which someone like Roberts gets to 'interpret' an unavoidably ambiguous 220-year-old document, written at a time and place that had less in common with America in 2012 than it did with England in 1500. Under such interpretive conditions, it’s inevitable that 'the Constitution' ends up meaning pretty much what John Roberts thinks it ought to mean."

  89. Nicholas Weaver says

    The conservative intellectual KHHHAAANN from the National Review:

    In today’s deeply disappointing decision on Obamacare, a majority of the Supreme Court actually got the Constitution mostly right. The Commerce Clause — the part of the Constitution that grants Congress the authority to regulate commerce among the states — does not authorize the federal government to force Americans to buy health insurance. The Court, by a 5–4 margin, refused to join all the august legal experts who insisted that of course it granted that authorization, that only yahoos and Republican partisans could possibly doubt it. It then pretended that this requirement is constitutional anyway, because it is merely an application of the taxing authority. Rarely has the maxim that the power to tax is the power to destroy been so apt, a portion of liberty being the direct object in this case.

    {got it off of boingboing}

  90. Marzipan says

    And for some overweening self-satisfaction, Michael Moore's Huffington Post piece:

    Some choice quotes (with formatting preserved from the original:

    "The right-wing knows this and they are probably unraveling in some not-so-pretty ways right now. And that's why today is a great day. The Right has been smacked down by one of their own!"

    "The split we have in America can be boiled down in its simplest form to this: On one side are the people who believe Adam and Eve rode on dinosaurs 6,000 years ago — and then there's everyone else."

    "The rich's only obstacle is that they only hold 1% of the votes in the country. So they have to try to get a slim majority of Americans to vote their way. And fear, plus keeping them stupid, usually works."

  91. Richard says

    @Marzipan – Love how Michael Moore is making it "Us vs. Them" where "Us" is "the 99%" and "Them" is "the 1%"

    Because I'm sure that Michael Moore makes less than the… what was it? $300,000/yr to be in the 1%?

    Then again, this is nothing new for Michael Moore.

  92. Sharon W. says

    From Twitter…makes me wonder why Viagra is subsidized by insurance.

    rob delaney ‏@robdelaney
    Watching GOP slam Obamacare, which they invented & til recently, publicly jerked off to, is giving me a boner that may require medical attn.

  93. AlphaCentauri says

    I haven't read the whole thing, but correct me if I"m wrong: Unlike Medicare, which even Christian Scientists have to pay into, can't all these whiners effectively opt out by creating a buying group with minimal coverage, so everyone would pay his/her own way — so long as the group agrees to cover members with catastrophic illnesses who change their minds and want everyone else to pay for their care without having to pay in when they are healthy?

    At least as things are now, bad insurance is worse than no insurance, since it disqualifies you from most charitable and government plans. That could be their business plan. If they're so confident that true Americans are responsible for their own expenses, they will surely be willing to create a group that will figure out how that works in real life.

  94. David Smith says


    If you don't understand, you never will.

    Many slaves were better off under their masters. They were still slaves.

  95. Dan Weber says

    Unlike Medicare, which even Christian Scientists have to pay into, can't all these whiners effectively opt out by creating a buying group with minimal coverage

    If you run an insurance pool, you almost certainly have to offer mandatory coverage of a whole bunch of things. Remember the birth-control issue from a few months ago? If you google up state insurance mandates you will more examples.

  96. Z says

    From an email I just received:

    "We're back in Baltimore. And Obamacare has been upheld. We check our records to see if we'd drowned a few kittens or starved a few orphans to death. We just can't figure out what the heck we did to deserve both these things –Obamacare being upheld and us being in Baltimore — happening at once.

    Most of you reading this aren't suffering in Baltimore. But you will be suffering under Obamacare. Lordy… NDAA 2012, killer drones, the TSA and now medical collectivism billed as yet another tax!

    First we moped about. Then we started looking for house rentals in various Latin American countries. We feel the need to go hide out for a year. To withdraw ourselves from the U.S. and its taxes and its collectivized mandates, its terror drones, its presumptuous politicians and its complicit sheep-people citizenry.

    Quite frankly we're so mad about this that we could spit. It's not like we were all living in a utopia of liberty and limited government before. But this Obamacare is somehow…really insulting."

    They are being more understated than I expected.

  97. AlphaCentauri says

    @Dan Weber True, but never underestimate the creativity of people creating bad insurance. I see lots of people whose colonoscopies, which should be done without any copay under the part of the ACA already in effect, are requiring $2500 copays. They are claiming they aren't done for screening. Their compensation to the gastroenterologists for "screening" vs "routine" colonoscopies is so bizarrely different that they have managed to enlist the doctors against their own patients by having them submit diagnoses, like "abdominal pain" or "constipation" that affect everyone at one point or another.

  98. flip says

    @David Smith • Jun 29, 2012 @11:29 am

    I certainly won't be convinced using rhetoric. Got an actual argument there because I don't consider you calling me a slave very useful information. I'll admit to not knowing much about the American health system, nor these changes… so try enlightening me with specifics instead of vague allusions.

    At any rate even if 'Obamacare' isn't the best plan, I don't see how anyone can compare it to the end times. Or slavery.

  99. David Smith says


    I don't want to get into an argument, and this is not an ad hominem. However, my "rhetorical" comment about "you never will" seems to be unpleasantly close to the mark.

    I will try to elaborate w what used to be a very American attitude. I don't care if I am dying in agony from cancer – – the "man", the "baas", the hydra headed committee called "government, does NOT order me to get treatment. I probably will, I don't enjoy pain more than any one else, but it is MY decision. Not some bureaucrat "slaver" or a policy written years ago, thousands of miles away, by some politician w unknown goals who has rendered his own kind immune from his own laws.

    Expansion: The problem is not the Good King. The problem is the Next King.

    Yes, I have an issue about this. 40 years ago I graduated w a degree in aerospace engineering and a case of cancer. Cured, I tried to get work and was told "We can't hire you". It seems in order to protect me the US guvmint (not a mispelling – believe me) had "protected" me by requiring all companies above a certain size, or w guvmint contracts to offer health insurance. I couldn't qualify. IN ADDITION, to "protect" me from undue pressure (which mere mortals just CAN'T hack, I was required to take it.

    I tried claiming religious exemption and everything else I could think of. I went to the ACLU and the attorney told me (and I quote) "Go on welfare kid. You can't work". (actually, I could. All I had to do was find a magic company w fewer than 50 employees, w no health plan, and no government contracts of ANY kind w ANY level of government (city, county, state, federal). OR I could start my own company and roll in my freedom and money.

    I believe it was John Adams who said: "If the government told us when to sow and when to reap, we would soon lack bread".

    The government is NOT smarter than I am and I AM NOT THEIR SLAVE, THEIR WARD, THEIR DAHKEE regardless of how they say it is "for my own good".

  100. flip says


    This then is a problem unique to American health services. I am not forced to obtain any kind of medical treatment. I am not forced to seek medical attention at regular intervals. I can seek medical attention whenever I require it. I can even go an entire lifetime without seeing anyone at all and nobody would notice. I am not forced to take any kind of medication. I am not forced to attend a particular doctor, hospital or testing facility. I am not forced to obtain any particular private health insurance (on top of my government issued one I have opted for private health care as well, as is my choice, though I have the option to stick with government-provided only).

    Unless the company I work for requires certain public liability, etc types of insurance, I do not need to sign up for any employer-provided health insurances. In fact, I have never been offered any kind of insurance except for being placed under PL insurance as a normal course of being an employee (this doesn't require me filling out forms or medical checks). Even when I required PL insurance I never needed to submit myself to a health check – only one job required that and it was because I worked a risky job and was on government payroll. I have obtained private PL insurance for my own work and have never needed to submit myself to a health check.

    At no time have I ever been denied treatment or medication that I needed based on… well, anything. At no time have I ever required to submit my treatment requests to anyone other than a pharmacist, testing facility or specialist as required for them to do their jobs. At no time have I ever been required to do anything more than submit a basic background form when attending a physician for the first time, or when obtaining a test as requested by a doctor. I have received many many deductions from many many tests, doctor appointments and hospital admissions simply by having goverment-provided health insurance – and it's saved me a lot of money. For some of the tests I don't even have to pay at all.

    If I don't like a health care policy, I can vote or participate in lobbying. If I don't like the health care services provided, I can voice my concerns (as I have done on one occasion when dealing with a local hospital). I have gone through about 8 doctors in the past few years, trying to find one I like since my original one retired. I have opted to undertake medication for certain conditions and ignored recommendations of doctors on occasions; and never once needed to submit my reasoning to anyone, including said doctors. I have voted with my feet by ignoring pseudoscientific "alternative medicine", despite the fact that I can get deductions on that under my government-provided health insurance. At no time have I ever been pressured into anything, whether it was in order to obtain treatment or to prevent me from getting it.

    The only time I've ever dealt with the government in regards to my health insurance has been: in submission of my taxes, where they calculate any deductions I might be eligible for; in updating my medicare records; in submitting forms for deductions. I can even not submit deduction forms and nobody would notice. It does make things more expensive for me though. The amount of paperwork required by me is no more or less bureacratic than doing my taxes or having private health insurance.

    This is why I am confused at the rhetoric: if people take the time to look at how other countries run their health systems they might realise that ours is nothing like the American version. That you couldn't get a job because they wouldn't deal with your health problems says more about the way American health services are set up than it does about socialised medicine. If that happened here there'd be a riot. There'd be lawsuits. And the government would get kicked out of office.

    I'm not looking for an argument either, just trying to understand your point of view. That you consider my situation akin to slavery is very strange to me. My health insurance is paid via my taxes, just like roads, police and fire brigade. I'm not "forced" to use the fire brigade either, but it certainly comes in handy for emergencies. I've actually required police assistance before, and I use public transport for most travel. In all cases I have a choice to use it, to ignore it, or to supplement it with private services. In all cases the government interferes not one iota with my choices to do so. The only way it "interferes" is in the sense that there are occasionally forms to fill in and taxes to pay; no different than any other country in the world.

    I don't see how socialised medicine is any different. Except of course, that the specifics of how it is applied is important. I do agree that people should be free to choose: I just disagree that socialised medicine hampers that freedom any more than paying taxes for roads does.

  101. David Smith says


    It would seem I was 100% correct.

    "You never will"

    (Last Post – I will not discuss w someone who wants a "just master" more than they want their freedom)

  102. flip says

    Well, you did a great job convincing me with you know… specifics.

    I'd be happy to change my mind. I'd just like to know why I'd be changing it other than rhetoric. Freedom's nice and all, but how can I fight for it if I don't know what to ask for?

    Anyway, since you're quite clearly not going to bother trying, I won't either. I posted my thoughts, you're supposed to respond with yours, not a "I can't be f*d". For someone so interested in fighting for freedom, you're certainly not taking the time to help release a slave.

    Utterly unimpressive debating skills.